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 [fodDB 2011] Discussion

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Fus87
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PostSubject: Re: [fodDB 2011] Discussion   Thu Jul 07, 2011 2:46 am

I'm brilliant! Cool
OK, I'll have some humble pie...

Are Eritrea and Morocco still available to choose when starting a career? If so, this is definitely the way to go. Even if not, I'll prefer to keep it like this.
Also, maybe you should simulate another season (or two), just to see if they really don't sign any foreigners. It may just be coincidence.

Argentina is almost a must (Tour de San Luis). Chile would come in handy too, as we have the Tour de Chile in the DB, and no Chilean teams to ride it - even I can see that adding Chilean club teams would be over the top.
In Africa, there are a lot of possibilities: Rwanda, Burkina Faso, Gabon all participate in their national races, and frequently in foreign races too - Rwanda was at the Tropicale, as was Burkina Faso. So were Cameroon, Libya and even Kenya, for that matter. The latter two aren't really competitive, but Cameroon has some good riders. If we accept partly or wholly fantasy pelotons, we could even add the Tour du Cameroun and GP Chantal Biya; maybe even the Tour Eritrea... Smile
Maybe the African UCI team can be thrown out again. But the Ethiopians would have nowhere to go then. And it's a really nice jersey.

A Singapore national participated in the Tour de Langkawi, and probably in many more South East Asian races (OCBC criterium for sure). Korea also sent a national team to Langkawi (and other races), but with some riders registered at Geumsan Ginseng Asia, Seoul Cycling or KSPO. GGA is in the DB already, but I think we should rather have Seoul and KSPO as separate, normal teams. That leaves some riders out of course that aren't registered at any Continental team.
Even Malaysia sent a national team. Amir Mustafa Rusli and Sea Keong Loh should stay at Drapac and Marco Polo, of course.
Hong Kong starlet Choi Ki Ho (won Tour of Korea against strong opposition, 4th in Singkarak and Hong Kong champion) also only rides on the national team.


I'm going overboard again, I think. I'll leave it at that for now; all just suggestions.

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PostSubject: Re: [fodDB 2011] Discussion   Thu Jul 07, 2011 3:59 am

Wow, great!

My 2 cents for the national teams you could add:

Africa, Asia, Europe and the USA allready have a nice amount of teams to have a decent starting field in the races there, South-America hasn't, while I know some people really like playing careers there. That's why I would suggest to have 3-4 extra teams from that continent: Venezuela (obviously, many great riders there that have no team yet, plus several races), Argentina and Cuba. Later you could also choose for Chile or Dominican Republic (also do many S-American races as national team).

For Africa you can maybe have Burkina Faso, to have a hometeam for the Tour du Faso, after all maybe the most known race on the African continent.

I would say for now it is far too early (regarding to other teams being left out) to add countries like Cameroon (level got much lower lately), Gabon (almost do no races), Kenya, Libya (no race program, and I guess that will stay so seeing the civil war there), ...
Same thing with Asian teams. Would prefer an extra Korean cont team then above some obscure national selection like Singapore (how often you see these irl, Fus Wink scratch ) And pls leave the UCI Africa-team in, it's bloody cool Cool
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PostSubject: Re: [fodDB 2011] Discussion   Thu Jul 07, 2011 8:09 am

Think I was too enthusiastic after I saw the test results. Before adding more national teams (or even any new Continental teams) there's some more work to do, e.g. 2nd year objectives or rider's race programs have to be adapted. In my test career Voeckler has some weird expectations for 2012:



There's actually no Tour of Singkarak in February or Jelajah Malaysia in August. And team goals always turn to winning Tour de Langkawi eleven times for season two, so there's more to be done Neutral If anyone wants to help with that I'll upload some Excel-files where one could adapt those goals.


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PostSubject: Re: [fodDB 2011] Discussion   Thu Jul 07, 2011 3:39 pm

I could give you a hand, if you explain what to do (did quite some db-editing for PCM6 before but can't remember editing teamobjectives for second years and rider programs)! Wink
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PostSubject: Re: [fodDB 2011] Discussion   Thu Jul 07, 2011 8:09 pm

I'm positively sure that's because you gave Singkarak, Jelajah Malaysia etc. the race IDs of races that don't exist anymore, but were in the original PCM06 DB (Deutschland-Tour, Euskal Bizikleta etc.).
In some way the months for these races are hardcoded (or hidden where nobody's searched yet).
My suggestion:
1) Look at the original PCM06 DB (the one that comes with the latest patch) and don't use the IDs from races that aren't held anymore. Give any new races an all-new race ID. Of possible, build the DB from scratch again to stop the old IDs from being "remembered" in some way.
2; only to be done when the other problems is solved) Switch some races' IDs (California is in May now, but would still appear in February in the riders' programs; Catalunya is in March now, but would appear in May etc.). We even have an example here, with the Cyclassics appearing on the program in July when they in fact are in August.

So, the problem shouldn't be so very complicated to solve, it only requires some additional work. 'Cause other than the two races you pointed out, Voeckler's program looks very good.

One small issue that isn't of high importance: Many riders want to do Tirreno-Adriatico instead of Paris-Nice; even Voeckler does. Maybe we can find some way to correct that. But it really isn't very important.

Of course, I'd give you a hand too if needed.

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PostSubject: Re: [fodDB 2011] Discussion   Thu Jul 07, 2011 8:44 pm

I'm totally aware of those things, know why these races are in his programme and why they're situated in the given months. I also know how to change those things, that's not the point.

BUT: It is awefully much work to do, updating hundreds of races in the programme lists and future objectives lists. That is why I wanted someone to help me Smile

@sisse, Fus: I'll upload an Excel file with explanations ASAP, maybe tomorrow. What you could do is find races that fit as objectives for each team (e.g. Leopard: Tour de France, Tour de Luxembourg, Northern and Hily Classics, ...).

As for the rider's programmes I will just substitute races that are mis-linked and correct the months. Plenty of work too, but something I think I can do on my own.
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PostSubject: Re: [fodDB 2011] Discussion   Thu Jul 07, 2011 9:03 pm

crxfod wrote:
I'm totally aware of those things, know why these races are in his programme and why they're situated in the given months. I also know how to change those things, that's not the point.
crxfod wrote:
As for the rider's programmes I will just substitute races that are mis-linked and correct the months. Plenty of work too, but something I think I can do on my own.
OK.
All's well then. No, not really, but at least you know what to do. Wink

crxfod wrote:
BUT: It is awefully much work to do, updating hundreds of races in the programme lists and future objectives lists. That is why I wanted someone to help me Smile

@sisse, Fus: I'll upload an Excel file with explanations ASAP, maybe tomorrow. What you could do is find races that fit as objectives for each team (e.g. Leopard: Tour de France, Tour de Luxembourg, Northern and Hily Classics, ...).
Will do. You know the saying: Free time is the work you aren't paid for... Laughing
But I've never done this (programme list & future objectives) before, so I'll need detailed instructions.


In reply to sisse, regarding the national teams:
Argentina, Cuba, Chile & Dom. Republic I fully support. But when do you ever see a Venezuelan national team? I'd rather have Venezuelan club teams.
Singapore did participate in the Tour de Langkawi, Jelajah Malaysia, Tour de Filipinas, Tour of Thailand and Tour of Singkarak - that's actually the entire South East Asian calendar. But it's true that even then they don't have many races, and mostly didn't make any impression. KSPO, Seoul Cycling or Qinghai Tianyoude (with former "B" world ITT champion Ma Haijun!) should have a higher priority.

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PostSubject: Re: [fodDB 2011] Discussion   Thu Jul 07, 2011 9:34 pm

Fus87 wrote:
But I've never done this (programme list & future objectives) before, so I'll need detailed instructions.
It will just be an Excel list where you put race-ids in columns to the teams, likely to be prioritized from 1-6 (with 1 as highest priority). So it shouldn't be that big thing, but as said, too much work for me to do on my own...

But more details to follow.
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PostSubject: Re: [fodDB 2011] Discussion   Fri Jul 08, 2011 1:47 am

Fus87 wrote:

In reply to sisse, regarding the national teams:
Argentina, Cuba, Chile & Dom. Republic I fully support. But when do you ever see a Venezuelan national team? I'd rather have Venezuelan club teams.

Well, whenever you see Venezuelan teams outside their country, it's as a national team. I'm mainly thinking of races in Middle-America, in Cuba, Dominican Republic, ... Often they smash everything there.

Fe, Vuelta Independencia Nacional 2011 final gc:

1 Tomas Gil (Ven) Venezuela 25:42:55
2 Manuel Medina (Ven) Venezuela 0:00:26
3 Marco Antonio Arriagada (Chi) Mauricio Báez 0:00:35
4 Carlos Ochoa (Ven) Venezuela 0:01:27
5 Augusto Sanchez (Dom) Aro & Pedal/Inteja 0:01:43
6 Nelson Ismael Sanchez (Dom) La Vega 0:02:32
7 Freddy Piamonte (Col) EPM-UNE 0:02:46
8 Miguel Ubeto (Ven) Venezuela 0:02:54
9 Rob Squire (USA) US U23 National Team 0:02:57
10 Pedro Gutierrez (Ven) Venezuela 0:03:04


I would also prefer clubteams from there, but since crxfod doesn't like to add clubteams and it would be a bit of a crime to have races like Tachira and Vuelta a Venezuela without any hometeam, I rather have a national team Smile

Fus87 wrote:

Singapore did participate in the Tour de Langkawi, Jelajah Malaysia, Tour de Filipinas, Tour of Thailand and Tour of Singkarak - that's actually the entire South East Asian calendar.

Wow, you got me there, missed that! Probably cos they were so far in the results Wink Very Happy
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PostSubject: Re: [fodDB 2011] Discussion   Fri Jul 08, 2011 1:57 am

sisse wrote:
Fus87 wrote:

Singapore did participate in the Tour de Langkawi, Jelajah Malaysia, Tour de Filipinas, Tour of Thailand and Tour of Singkarak - that's actually the entire South East Asian calendar.

Wow, you got me there, missed that! Probably cos they were so far in the results Wink Very Happy
I missed the Venezuelan national team. And they actually win the races they do. So we're even. Wink

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PostSubject: Re: [fodDB 2011] Discussion   Fri Jul 08, 2011 9:51 am

The file for generating future objectives can be found at mediafire.com ?qahyrdi66ny718y

Direct Links:
Future objectives
(Excel 97-03)

If the explanation within the file is not clear enough, just ask and I'll try to give smarter answers Smile
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PostSubject: Re: [fodDB 2011] Discussion   Fri Jul 08, 2011 11:14 am

I haven't checked this year but what about the Mongolia National Team? Aren't they doing a lot of races this year?
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PostSubject: Re: [fodDB 2011] Discussion   Fri Jul 08, 2011 4:16 pm

Oh, I'm so excited about this db! Hope you can finish it good Smile I'll try some stages, if I'll find some time.
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PostSubject: Re: [fodDB 2011] Discussion   Fri Jul 08, 2011 4:20 pm

Jaroslav wrote:
I haven't checked this year but what about the Mongolia National Team? Aren't they doing a lot of races this year?
I'm afraid not. The only recent race I can find is the 2010 Tour of China (Khangarid Naran was 31st). But countries like Brunei, Myanmar or Taiwan also send a team to one or two UCI races, and I wouldn't consider puttin them in. So I'm afraid Mongolia is out (for now).

Better ideas would be Uzbekistan (they're more competitive), Hong Kong (already mentioned earlier) or Kazakhstan (very competitive, and will form a "development squad" called Astana-2 for next year).
Russia also sends a national team to many races in Asia, Africa and South America - but some of the riders in these selections may be on trade teams already. The same is true for Japan, but that often looks like a mix of riders from the Japanese Continental teams.
I thought of turning national development squads (Itera - Katusha) into national teams as well: These teams (other examples would be the Capec team until 2007, or the upcoming Astana-2; even the Dutch Ubbing - Koga could be considered as falling in this category) only contract riders of one nationality and often cooperate closely with the national federation. That Itera - Katusha has signed Remmert Wielinga is an exception. This would require further testing though, to see if Morocco & Eritrea will re-sign riders or sign new riders of the correct nationality.

Note to crxfod: Morocco participated in last year's Tour of Hainan (and this year's Tour de Slovaquie) - just in case you didn't know that already.

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PostSubject: Re: [fodDB 2011] Discussion   Fri Jul 08, 2011 4:58 pm

More testing: Reduced the number of races (for quicker simulating) and increased teams' budgets to have wealthier teams at the end of 2011. Weird transfers of course, but still Morocco and Eritrea don't grab foreign riders!!! cheers


Ok, let's take it to the max then.

Added GW Shimano - Chec - Edeq - Envía (COL) and Gobernación del Zulia - Alcaldía de Maracaibo (VEN) for a total of 165 playable teams (plus national selections, free riders and youngsters that makes 191 teams in the database). As we can go up to 199 teams, tell me which 8 teams you miss the most.

I'd prefer the following:
1 - National Team Argentina
2 - National Team Burkina Faso
3 - National Team Chile
4 - National Team Cuba
5 - National Team Kazakhstan
--------------------------------------------
6 - KSPO (KOR)
7 - Ringeriks - Kraft (NOR)
8 - Vali Asr Kerman (IRI)
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PostSubject: Re: [fodDB 2011] Discussion   Fri Jul 08, 2011 7:46 pm

Some important things to remember when editing the objectives:
1) The game doesn't recognise goals in X.2- or NE-races. For instance, if you're supposed to win the Olympia's Tour and achieve that, the little green hook won't appear. For small Continental teams there's nothing you can do about it, but when possible X.2- or NE-goals should be avoided.
2) WorldTour teams can't participate in X.2- or NE-races (with a few exceptions). So only goals in the WT, X.HC and X.1 categories for those.

I'll have a look at the "8 teams I miss the most" later.

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PostSubject: Re: [fodDB 2011] Discussion   Sat Jul 09, 2011 1:44 am

First of all, thx for the two extra S-American teams!! I think they were really necessary!

crxfod wrote:
I'd prefer the following:
1 - National Team Argentina
2 - National Team Burkina Faso
3 - National Team Chile
4 - National Team Cuba
5 - National Team Kazakhstan
--------------------------------------------
6 - KSPO (KOR)
7 - Ringeriks - Kraft (NOR)
8 - Vali Asr Kerman (IRI)

My two cents:

Argentina, Burkina, Chile, Cuba: YES!!
Kazakhstan: yes! May be a coincidence but somehow today I also realized that we always forgot about them, just like Hong Kong. They could be very usefull for the Asian and Russian races, and on top of that I even remember seeing them in a S-American stagerace this year.
KSPO: yes!
Ringeriks: I'd prefer Telenet-Fidea over this small team, seeing now how well Telenet is doing in many Eastern-European races (Serbia, Poland, Czech Republic, ...) Look fe at the result of their teamleader Tom Meeusen: http://www.wielerland.nl/index.php?option=com_database&c=r&sc=1&id=6765&Itemid=242

Vali Asr: hmmmm, doubting here... I guess you prefer having this team to fill races in the Middle-East, and that would make sense... And they indeed have some decent leaders... However, a Hong Kong-national team would also be nice... Or a Russian national team (riding very strong in Spain (even in 2.1-races) and usefull for Russian races too)... Or even an extra Colombian team like Loteria de Boyaca... Hmm, even I wouldn't be able to decide Very Happy

crxfod wrote:

As we can go up to 199 teams

What do you exactly mean here? Is this the limit that makes the game crash during the start-up of a career when you go over it? I know there was some limit in that, but forgot where it exactly was (also cos finally me and Plakker found a way to get rid of it, but then again the solution was rather complicated, so it's indeed the best to stay under that limit now).
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PostSubject: Re: [fodDB 2011] Discussion   Sat Jul 09, 2011 2:50 am

sisse wrote:
crxfod wrote:

As we can go up to 199 teams

What do you exactly mean here? Is this the limit that makes the game crash during the start-up of a career when you go over it? I know there was some limit in that, but forgot where it exactly was (also cos finally me and Plakker found a way to get rid of it, but then again the solution was rather complicated, so it's indeed the best to stay under that limit now).
Exactly.
I simply looked at which teams Plakker added to the Giant07 after making it "unlimited", and counted how many were in before.
199 teams sounds like what Cyanide would have decided as the limit for a normal career-start (without the savegame-editing etc.).
In detail, there has to be one spot each for free agents and scoutable youngsters (a total of 2). The 24 national selections for the World Championships brings it to 26, that leaves 173 normal teams. There are 165 right now, leaving 8 open spots.


Now, how to fill those:
1: I can't believe we oversaw Telenet - Fidea until now. Surprised
They simply have to be in, no discussion.
2: One of the Korean teams: KSPO or Seoul Cycling Team.
In both, sprinters Park Sung-Baek (KSP) and Cho Ho-Sung (SCT) are carrying the team's weight on their shoulders. And of those two, Park Sung-Baek is definitely the strongest.
But the rest of the KSPO team (apart from Joo Hyun-Wook and Kim Dong-Hun) are no-name (and no-result) youngsters. Seoul Cycling is stronger in that regard, with Lee Wong-Jae, Suh Seok-Kyu, Park Seon-Ho and Youm Jung-Hwan all having several notable results in the past.
I would choose Seoul Cycling and put the KSPO riders in as free agents or scoutable youngsters, with both Korean teams having some room in the budget (so you can sign Park Sung-Baek right away if you play them).
3: Argentina: Yes.
4: Chile: Yes.
5: Cuba: Yes.
6: Kazakhstan: Yes.
7: Burkina Faso: Yes.
8: What, only one spot left? Sad
I was about to advocate strongly for Qinghai Tianyoude, but I just found out Ma Haijun isn't on the roster anymore.
I have a really soft spot for Rwanda, but I'm realistic enough to see that Hategeka and Byukusenge aren't enough to justify a whole team. They're on the UCI African Team anyway.
Following the thought of every race have a "home team", if possible, we could argue for national teams from Uruguay and the Dominican Republic. But I think Uzbekistan, Hong Kong and especially Russia are more competitive.
Vali Asr - Kerman is mostly a one-hit wonder like KSPO and Seoul Cycling, but their "hit" is a very strong Hossein Nateghi. We do have 3 Iranian teams already, though.
Strengthening South America with Lotería del Táchira or Boyacá Orgullo de America is a tempting thought too. I would prefer Lotería del Táchira as we already have several Colombian teams, but only one from Venezuela.
My suggestions for that coveted last spot, in the order I'd choose them:
Russia
Hong Kong
Lotería del Táchira
Vali Asr - Kerman
Uzbekistan
I think a Russian national team would indeed be the best solution. That the riders from all the Continental teams and national selections we scrapped should be in as free agents goes without saying.

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PostSubject: Re: [fodDB 2011] Discussion   Sat Jul 09, 2011 12:25 pm

@ crxfod: maybe it's allready done now, but if it isn't, pls add Angelo Tulik as a scoutable youngster. He's a decent French sprinter and will be riding for Europcar the next years.

@ Fus, as info: what Russian team are you speaking about? Such a huge country has several national selections riding around the world, I'm talking bout the selection riding mainly in Spain, Portugal and France and sometimes in their homecountry, in fact it is the Lokomotivteam which is changed in a national team in 1.1/2.1-races.

Their riders I found so far:

Sergey Shilov http://www.wielerland.nl/index.php?option=com_database&c=r&sc=1&id=10542&Itemid=242
Kirill Sveshnikov http://www.wielerland.nl/index.php?option=com_database&c=r&sc=1&id=36017&Itemid=242
Artur Ershov http://www.wielerland.nl/index.php?option=com_database&c=r&sc=1&id=18825&Itemid=242
Sergey Chernestskiy http://www.wielerland.nl/index.php?option=com_database&c=r&sc=1&id=37000&Itemid=242
Alexander Rybakov http://www.wielerland.nl/index.php?option=com_database&c=r&sc=1&id=15930&Itemid=242
Sergey Belykh http://www.wielerland.nl/index.php?option=com_database&c=r&sc=1&id=34271&Itemid=242
Evgeniy Shalunov http://www.wielerland.nl/index.php?option=com_database&c=r&sc=1&id=36004&Itemid=242
Maxim Kozyrev http://www.wielerland.nl/index.php?option=com_database&c=r&sc=1&id=42013&Itemid=242
Valery Kaikov http://www.wielerland.nl/index.php?option=com_database&c=r&sc=1&id=15968&Itemid=242
Pavel Karpenkov http://www.wielerland.nl/index.php?option=com_database&c=r&sc=1&id=44849&Itemid=242
Leonid Krasnov http://www.wielerland.nl/index.php?option=com_database&c=r&sc=1&id=16190&Itemid=242

Some birthdates: http://diariociclista.mforos.com/1921649/10005468-08-05-11-4-et-vuelta-a-castellon-castellon-vistabella-138-kms/

About the Korean teams, KSPO or Seoul, for me it's pretty much the same, one of them would be nice so better follow Fus there fpr chosing Wink
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PostSubject: Re: [fodDB 2011] Discussion   Sat Jul 09, 2011 9:01 pm

To be honest I hadn't given that much thought until now.

After some research, I have found out that some sort of track national team (Markov, Serov, Kovalev etc.) participated in the Tour of Hainan (2010 obviously), Tour of South Africa, ProRace Berlin and Tour of Qinghai Lake (I may well have missed some races). Some of the riders selected for this team also have contracts on Itera - Katusha (Continental) or Itera - Katusha U21/U23 (club team).

The national team in the Russian and Baltic races (Five Rings of Moscow, Tartu GP etc.) looks like it is made up of local youngsters, with guys like Shpilevsky or Firsanov as guest riders.
In the Tour de Berlin, it was simply a re-branded Itera - Katusha U21/U23 squad.
And in the Giro del Friuli-Venezia Giulia it's an entirely different team; I guess that's the version riding in the Italian X.2 races.

Putting all these together in one team would bring it to 30+ riders, way too much. But combining the Lokomotiv squad of 12 (plus maybe Vladimir Shchekunov who rode for them until 2010) with the track selection wouldn't blow up the squad too much.
The following riders rode for the "track selection" in 2011:
Aleksey Markov
Aleksandr Serov
Ivan Kovalev
Aleksandr Khatuntsev
Valery Valynin
Viktor Manakov (also on Itera - Katusha U21/U23)
Evgeny Kovalev (also on Itera - Katusha Conti)
Kirill Yatsevich (also on Itera - Katusha U21/U23)
Sergey Firsanov (also on Itera - Katusha Conti)
That would make around 20 riders, if E. Kovalev and Firsanov stay on their trade team.
With that roster, they could do all the races either Lokomotiv or the "track selection" participated in, and should still have enough manpower for the Russian/Eastern European races. Maybe even for the small Italian races, where Russia (albeit with a different line-up) is always very strong.

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PostSubject: Re: [fodDB 2011] Discussion   Sun Jul 10, 2011 3:44 pm

crxfod wrote:
The file for generating future objectives can be found at mediafire.com ?qahyrdi66ny718y

Direct Links:
Future objectives
(Excel 97-03)

If the explanation within the file is not clear enough, just ask and I'll try to give smarter answers Smile
The explanation in the file looks OK.
I'm not quite sure about the ambition levels yet, especially with Continental teams. ProConti teams that ride in the small WT races (Classics and one-week tours, I can look in the startlist-file you sent me earlier to see which ones start) can get goals there too, right? But for the GTs they should only get the goal to achieve a wildcard? Because a team like Geox, for instance, could reasonably well get the goal to podium in the Vuelta - which of course implies a wildcard.
But now I remember that these are FUTURE objectives (and not every Spanich ProConti team may have Sastre and Menchov - although one in the highest ambition level probably will have some sort of GC contender, like Mosquera at KGZ). The objectives in the first year can be set individually for each team, right? Or was that only possible in the Giant07 because it was savegame-based?

And the goal "gaining a wildcard" reminded me to ask this: With only 18 ProTour/WorldTour teams, how many teams get a wildcard for the GTs? 4 (as it should be), or only 2 (as it was in 2006/2007 with 20 PT/WT teams; and this looks like something Cyanide would hardcode).

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PostSubject: Re: [fodDB 2011] Discussion   Sun Jul 10, 2011 6:03 pm

Fus87 wrote:
The explanation in the file looks OK.
I'm not quite sure about the ambition levels yet, especially with Continental teams. ProConti teams that ride in the small WT races (Classics and one-week tours, I can look in the startlist-file you sent me earlier to see which ones start) can get goals there too, right? But for the GTs they should only get the goal to achieve a wildcard? Because a team like Geox, for instance, could reasonably well get the goal to podium in the Vuelta - which of course implies a wildcard.
As future objectives are based on teams' home coutries and their "level" it is not possible to assign them to single teams. So you can't be sure that a Spanish Conti team will e.g. ride the Vuelta and therefore it wouldn't make sense to tell them to win a stage there or finish on the podium. So I think future goals for Conti teams shouldn't include WT races at all.

Fus87 wrote:
The objectives in the first year can be set individually for each team, right?
That's correct and it's already done. Maybe some tweaking could still be done with the first year goals, but in fact they're ready for a first release.

Fus87 wrote:
And the goal "gaining a wildcard" reminded me to ask this: With only 18 ProTour/WorldTour teams, how many teams get a wildcard for the GTs? 4 (as it should be), or only 2 (as it was in 2006/2007 with 20 PT/WT teams; and this looks like something Cyanide would hardcode).
The game engine gives wildcards to 4 Conti teams, mainly teams from the GT's country (e.g. FDJ, EUC, COF and SAU at last simulated Tour).
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PostSubject: Re: [fodDB 2011] Discussion   Sun Jul 10, 2011 7:34 pm

crxfod wrote:
Fus87 wrote:
The explanation in the file looks OK.
I'm not quite sure about the ambition levels yet, especially with Continental teams. ProConti teams that ride in the small WT races (Classics and one-week tours, I can look in the startlist-file you sent me earlier to see which ones start) can get goals there too, right? But for the GTs they should only get the goal to achieve a wildcard? Because a team like Geox, for instance, could reasonably well get the goal to podium in the Vuelta - which of course implies a wildcard.
As future objectives are based on teams' home coutries and their "level" it is not possible to assign them to single teams. So you can't be sure that a Spanish Conti team will e.g. ride the Vuelta and therefore it wouldn't make sense to tell them to win a stage there or finish on the podium. So I think future goals for Conti teams shouldn't include WT races at all.

Apart from wildcards for GTs, of course? And even that only on the highest ambition level(s), maybe only for French/Italian/Spanish teams.
That's what I thought too.

crxfod wrote:
Fus87 wrote:
The objectives in the first year can be set individually for each team, right?
That's correct and it's already done. Maybe some tweaking could still be done with the first year goals, but in fact they're ready for a first release.
Great. Any chance of giving us a copy so we can suppose tweaks, just to annoy you? Wink
Only kidding, but when you've got someone else looking them over you don't have to do that yourself.

crxfod wrote:
Fus87 wrote:
And the goal "gaining a wildcard" reminded me to ask this: With only 18 ProTour/WorldTour teams, how many teams get a wildcard for the GTs? 4 (as it should be), or only 2 (as it was in 2006/2007 with 20 PT/WT teams; and this looks like something Cyanide would hardcode).
The game engine gives wildcards to 4 Conti teams, mainly teams from the GT's country (e.g. FDJ, EUC, COF and SAU at last simulated Tour).
Very good! Smile
I was afraid that might not work.

I'll get as busy as possible. Riding myself, watching the Tour, building a great DB - that's how to spend a summer. Very Happy

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PostSubject: Re: [fodDB 2011] Discussion   Tue Jul 12, 2011 2:41 am

Next to Angelo Tulik, here are some other interesting scoutable youngsters/young free agents to possibly add, doing well in recent races and not present in the cyclists db-file I have:

Nikolai Mihailov (Bul): TT Champ
http://www.wielerland.nl/index.php?option=com_database&c=r&sc=1&id=22910&Itemid=242
http://avcaix.com/avcaixjoom/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=221:nikolay-mihaylov&catid=9:equipe-dn1&Itemid=14

Dries Depoorter (Bel): very regular Belgian youngster
http://www.wielerland.nl/index.php?option=com_database&c=r&sc=1&id=5571&Itemid=242

Tom Van Asbroeck (Bel): winner Omloop Het Nieuwsblad u23
http://www.wielerland.nl/index.php?option=com_database&c=r&sc=1&id=22248&Itemid=242

Pawel Bernas (Pol): final winner Carpathia Couriers Path
http://www.wielerland.nl/index.php?option=com_database&c=r&sc=1&id=17632&Itemid=242

Pawel Poljanski (Pol): second overall Carpathia Couriers Path
http://www.wielerland.nl/index.php?option=com_database&c=r&sc=1&id=17685&Itemid=242

Jaroslaw Kowalczyk (Pol): third overall Carpathia Couriers Path
http://www.wielerland.nl/index.php?option=com_database&c=r&sc=1&id=38484&Itemid=242

Currently finalizing my check-up of the stats Wink
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PostSubject: Re: [fodDB 2011] Discussion   Tue Jul 12, 2011 4:23 pm

sisse wrote:
Currently finalizing my check-up of the stats Wink
Sounding good!
Then I don't have to do that, I trust your judgement completely.

Two things that came to my mind, crxfod:
1) Does the promotion/relegation system still work, with only 18 PT/WT teams? It probably does, but I'd rather be safe than sorry.
2) Have you done the co-sponsors already?

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