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 [fodDB 2011] Discussion

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crxfod
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PostSubject: Re: [fodDB 2011] Discussion   Sat Jun 25, 2011 8:09 pm

sisse wrote:
crxfod, I sent you a pm with some statsuggestions Wink
Thanks a lot! Will have a look on it later this evening.

Testing runs ok up to date. Jelloul just recently won the Tour de Maroc Very Happy
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PostSubject: Re: [fodDB 2011] Discussion   Sat Jun 25, 2011 8:21 pm

crxfod wrote:
Jelloul just recently won the Tour de Maroc Very Happy

That seems a perfect screenshot to make some publicity Exclamation
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PostSubject: Re: [fodDB 2011] Discussion   Sat Jun 25, 2011 8:36 pm

sisse wrote:
crxfod wrote:
Fus87 wrote:
Another Giro-stage-related question:
What to do with stage 14?
1) Crostis & Zoncolan, like originally planned
2) Tualis & Zoncolan, like rescheduled
3) only Zoncolan, as it was ridden
Well, would say (3).

I would go for 3 too.
Yeah, I thought so too. Maybe we can include the Crostis-version as a variant.

@Jelloul: Cool bounce

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PostSubject: Re: [fodDB 2011] Discussion   Sat Jun 25, 2011 9:22 pm

sisse wrote:
crxfod wrote:
Jelloul just recently won the Tour de Maroc Very Happy
That seems a perfect screenshot to make some publicity Exclamation
Something like that?

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PostSubject: Re: [fodDB 2011] Discussion   Sat Jun 25, 2011 10:38 pm

For example Smile Or a screen of the final classification of the Tour of Maroc?? Wink
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PostSubject: Re: [fodDB 2011] Discussion   Sat Jun 25, 2011 10:53 pm

GC looks like this:





Some rider's stats may of course still need some tweaking.
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PostSubject: Re: [fodDB 2011] Discussion   Sun Jun 26, 2011 1:36 am

Looking spectaculary well Smile And I know that in the list I sent you, I suggested to handbreak the stats of Van der Schueren a lil bit, so then he would finish where he really belongs (between 10th and 20th), which would make it even more realistic Smile

Maybe update the First screens-topic with this and possibly other realistic screenshots of these smaller races?
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PostSubject: Re: [fodDB 2011] Discussion   Sun Jun 26, 2011 2:43 pm

I like very much what I see. Smile

In a few days I'll come back with stats-suggestions, stages, jerseys etc. for sure, right now I need a PCM-break. Not for long, surely.

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PostSubject: Re: [fodDB 2011] Discussion   Sun Jun 26, 2011 6:51 pm

Fus87 wrote:
In a few days I'll come back with stats-suggestions, stages, jerseys etc. for sure, right now I need a PCM-break. Not for long, surely.
Hope it's not for too long. Would really like to have some more of your amazing stuff in the project before we release it.
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PostSubject: Re: [fodDB 2011] Discussion   Sun Jun 26, 2011 11:06 pm

Oh, it won't be long. Just a couple of days off.

From the "First screens" topic:
crxfod wrote:
Not to be too nitpicky, but in my opinion the logo for a NE shouldn't involve the UCI logo. After all, the point is that it isn't UCI-sanctioned...
Other than that of course, it looks awesome. Very Happy

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PostSubject: Re: [fodDB 2011] Discussion   Mon Jun 27, 2011 1:10 am

Fus87 wrote:
Not to be too nitpicky, but in my opinion the logo for a NE shouldn't involve the UCI logo. After all, the point is that it isn't UCI-sanctioned...
Good point, didn't even think of that when I once created these logos. That has definitely to be corrected. Thanks for that one.
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PostSubject: Re: [fodDB 2011] Discussion   Tue Jun 28, 2011 4:16 pm

While testing I had to notice that (most) Continental teams don't send their best riders to races. Nearly every CT-based rider with an average stats value of 71 and higher has no results up to July, except for national championships. So riders like Rujano, Garzelli, Menchov and Voeckler are actually missing in the game.

Anyone a clue why this happens and how to repair that? Strange behaviour after all...
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PostSubject: Re: [fodDB 2011] Discussion   Tue Jun 28, 2011 7:12 pm

crxfod wrote:
While testing I had to notice that (most) Continental teams don't send their best riders to races. Nearly every CT-based rider with an average stats value of 71 and higher has no results up to July, except for national championships. So riders like Rujano, Garzelli, Menchov and Voeckler are actually missing in the game.

Anyone a clue why this happens and how to repair that? Strange behaviour after all...

Hmm, that sounds familiar, think I saw it more in PCM... Were Rujano and Garzelli riding in the Giro? Maybe some solution could be to appoint favorite races to these guys. I presume that the AI for sure sends them to races which are in their favorite list.

Will ask for more possible solutions on the PPDB-forum.
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PostSubject: Re: [fodDB 2011] Discussion   Tue Jun 28, 2011 8:00 pm

I remember that in my PCM06 career (with the Giant07) several CT top riders (Boom at RB3, Traksel at PCO etc.) didn't race at all. The same was even true for several PT top riders (Leipheimer for instance).

Not particularly helpful, just an observation.

Also, I'll start with doing some jerseys again... Cool

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PostSubject: Re: [fodDB 2011] Discussion   Tue Jun 28, 2011 10:11 pm

Fus87 wrote:
Also, I'll start with doing some jerseys again... Cool
Then your time-out seems not to have lasted that long Very Happy
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PostSubject: Re: [fodDB 2011] Discussion   Fri Jul 01, 2011 12:38 pm

The talk of the Tour de Filipinas/Padyak Pinoy in the stage building thread made me think: Wouldn't it be nice to have a Filipino team in the DB?
The obvious candidate would be 7-Eleven: They have most of the country's top riders (including Irish Valenzuela - Jaroslav will know him), and they have a well-known, classic jersey.
Apart from their home race, they also participated in the Jelajah Malaysia and Tour of Thailand, and would be an obvious "fantasy" candidate for other Asian races.

Some info about the team:
http://www.philstar.com/Article.aspx?articleId=661750
http://www.philippinecyclingnews.com/index.php?route=information/news&news_id=152 (this site also has lots of other information about Filipino cycling)
http://www.prlog.org/11427884-7-eleven-rts-racing-team-by-roadbike-philippines-tops-tour-of-thailand-2011.html
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/stepping-up-a-gear-in-the-philippines
http://johnnyflex116.blogspot.com/2011/04/tour-of-thailand-2011-princess-maha.html
http://philcycling.wordpress.com/cycling-teams/road-bike-philippines/

And while we're on the topic of exotic teams, there's also the Eddy Hollands Bicycle Services team from Perth. Racing regularly in South East Asia, including ex-Marco Polo rider Sergey Kudentsov, Eddy Hollands (logically) and other journeymen.
Maybe that's a step too far - on the other hand you have already included several Australian NE races (where the team would come in handy too).

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PostSubject: Re: [fodDB 2011] Discussion   Fri Jul 01, 2011 2:30 pm

Fus87 wrote:
... 7-Eleven ... Eddy Hollands Bicycle Services ...
Quite nice ideas, but just added one more team from the Asian circuit as testing showed a lack of teams there:

It's the Holy Brother Cycling Team!

So if more teams are to be added (and especially if we take club teams into consideration) I'd really like to give 1-2 places to some South American teams.
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PostSubject: Re: [fodDB 2011] Discussion   Fri Jul 01, 2011 3:34 pm

Holy Brother of God!
Another jersey I'll have to build... Rolling Eyes
Only kidding.

Makes sense to leave the Asian circuit as it is. When the first version is finished and released, we can maybe go back to adding obscure teams.

For the South American teams:
From Venezuela Gobernacion del Zulia and Lotería del Táchira are the best (like sisse said some pages back).
The best Colombian teams that are not UCI-registered would be GW - Shimano - Chec - Edeq - Envia (Felix Cardenas won the Vuelta a Colombia), Boyacá Orgullo de America and Empresa Energia de Boyacá/EBSA.
Make your pick.

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PostSubject: Re: [fodDB 2011] Discussion   Fri Jul 01, 2011 5:01 pm

After all it did happen:



Let's see how to deal with this. I'll be back right after the weekend.
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PostSubject: Re: [fodDB 2011] Discussion   Sat Jul 02, 2011 2:42 am

Like I feared Sad Am surprised however that they're getting a big gun like Rolland. Bah! Sad
I fear there's little you can do to prevent this... Sad
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PostSubject: Re: [fodDB 2011] Discussion   Sat Jul 02, 2011 3:39 pm

Have you tried to put the riders' wages to a minimum and limit the team budget to cover just that & travel costs? Or even give the riders a wage of 0 and limit the budget to only the travel costs?
Then they shouldn't have the money for any new riders.

However, I also see two possible problems with that approach already:
1) When the initial contracts run out in 2013 or 2014, guys like Teklehaimanot, Jelloul etc. won't stay as they will get far better offers elsewhere. Possible solution: Give them very long contracts, at least the Moroccans who'll probably never go to Europe. Teklehaimanot shouldn't get more than a year (only 2011) anyway, he belongs in a bigger team.
2) The team budget is adjusted each year according to the team's success. As Morocco and Eritrea will have a lot of success in the races they participate in, the budget will rise anyway, negating the effects of the approach entirely.

As sisse says, there's little you can do to fully prevent this. But my experience from the PPDB tells me that there are some things we can do to at least minimise it:
In the PPDB Giant07, there were a lot of free agents. Really a lot. While I'm fully supportive of putting exotic riders in as free agents, you should limit the amount of free agents from bigger countries, like Spain, Belgium etc. These guys normally won't get a contract at a team from their home country, and compared to Moroccan or Eritrean riders they're pretty good - so they're an obvious signing for the AI. If there are no (or few) Spanish free agents to sign, there will only be riders whose contract ended, like Rolland and Lana.

By the way: Have you adjusted the BMSC values already? In the version of the DB I have they're all still at zero. As far as I know that will lead to an explosion in the team budgets, as the BMSC value reflects the sponsor's expectations (sadly, I don't know how the BMSC value is "translated" into UCI or CQ points). Maybe I'm wrong, but in the PPDB Giant07 at least, each team had a BMSC value at the start. As the amount of races is roughly the same, maybe you can use these values as an orientation.


I just had an idea. Maybe it's stupid, maybe it's THE solution. Idea
There's a column called "gene_b_national". Normally it's used to distinguish the national teams (for the World Championships) from the trade teams, but apart from that the "normal" national teams are also in another division (3 in "fkIDdivision" instead of 10 (ProTour) or 11 (Continental)). If you put a 1 in the column "gene_b_national" and leave Morocco and Eritrea (and maybe others in the future) in division 11, maybe it works.
Probably not, but in my opinion it's worth a try.

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PostSubject: Re: [fodDB 2011] Discussion   Sun Jul 03, 2011 9:42 pm

Fus87 wrote:
Have you tried to put the riders' wages to a minimum and limit the team budget to cover just that & travel costs?
Already tried that, but maybe the budgets were still to high.

Fus87 wrote:
While I'm fully supportive of putting exotic riders in as free agents, you should limit the amount of free agents from bigger countries, like Spain, Belgium etc.
That was already taken into consideration as there are mostly free agents from South American, African and Asian countries.

Fus87 wrote:
By the way: Have you adjusted the BMSC values already?
Is already done.

Fus87 wrote:
There's a column called "gene_b_national".
Of course I'm aware of that. Maybe it's really worth giving it a try, but I think it will not work anyway.

More infos to come tomorrow, will do some more testing then.
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PostSubject: Re: [fodDB 2011] Discussion   Mon Jul 04, 2011 1:56 pm

Set the national_team-flag to 1 for Eritrea and Morocco and....




...they are still riding Tropicale Amissa Bongo! Very Happy

Some negative effects I already discovered: Both teams no longer appear in the sqad-overview and as a manager of one of those teams you won't be able to participate in any other race then those preset (no insriptions to races possible). Will have to simulate another whole season to see how those teams now behave for 2012 on signing new riders.
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PostSubject: Re: [fodDB 2011] Discussion   Tue Jul 05, 2011 4:02 am

I wish I had PCM 06, then I would get this DB which will be an expert database.
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PostSubject: Re: [fodDB 2011] Discussion   Wed Jul 06, 2011 11:35 pm

Latest tests: Simulated a whole season with Eritrea and Morocco set as national teams. Results (screens from December 2011):





Seems like we found a way to solve this thanks to Fus (with the above mentioned limitations)! So, is this the way we go? If so, I would like to add 2-3 more national teams (Argentina? Chile? Burkina Faso? Cameroon? Suggestions welcome!).
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